haha, this is a Roger question! [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]
Time to revisit the super 8 sync sound issue. I have a Nizo 3056 and I want to record sync STEREO sound on my miniDV camera at the same time. I've read many a post on this and other forums. Most people say to just try to sync it up in post using a NLE, some have tried using the flash socket on these Nizo cameras, others have crystal sync cameras. I don't want to spend the money on crystal sync (not possible with my camera anyway) and I haven't had much luck in the past with syncing in post with the NLE. I would use the flash socket/resolver method but I'd really like to be able to record stereo sound, which is not possible with the resolving tone all over one of the channels.
It has been mentioned before that you really only need a header/trailer sync tone to resolve the audio in post. I don't want to have to use a clap board as this wastes film stock, time and crew. I was thinking of wiring up a simple tone generator to my miniDV cam inline with the mic inputs, then connect that to a switch that is activated when I start filming with the nizo. I have it all worked out except I can't figure out how to make the tone turn off after, say, one half second, then turn on again when I release the nizo switch and turn off again 1/2 second after that. I'm thinking there has to be either some mechanical switch with 3 positions (disconnect, connect, disconnect) so when you push it, it will start out disconnected, and 1/3 of the way through it's stroke, it will connect, then 2/3 of the way, it will disconnect and stay disconnected while you hold it down. Then upon releasing, as it travels back up, it will go by the connecting "pole" again and complete the sound circuit, before reaching the top and disconnecting.
Or maybe there is a simple digital switch that can do all this?
Thoughts?
-Nahie
haha, this is a Roger question! [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]
Perhaps you could keep the beep tone on one track, and the dialogue on the other?
Then the beep tone is on the whole time the take is going, but it won't affect the other track at all.
Now bleed through from one track to another can be a problem, so you would want to keep the tone at a much lower level. Then you simply line up the entire beep tone with the beginning of the film take, and then you can see how far it drifts to the end of take, and adjust sync accordingly.
<font size="2" face="verdana, sans-serif">Actually, I have prototyped a unit that is a variation on what Alex has described. As you want to record in stereo, you can't sacrifice an audio track, and bleed over is a definate problem, even if you only wanted mono. Therefore, what I've come up with is a lens cap for the miniDV camera that has an led in the middle of it. The LED lights up while the super 8 camera is running and shuts off immediately as soon as the super 8 camera stops. This is accomplished by way of a sensor placed on the super 8 camera that detects vibrations when the motor is running and switches on the LED immediately. When the motor stops, the LED shuts off. You could do the same thing with a double pole switch that activates the Nizo remote and the LED at the same time. This allows you to record in stereo with no problem and zero bleed over. The audio and video is digitized and once the video/audio track is stretched to the right length, the video is deleted.Originally posted by nahie:
I have a Nizo 3056 and I want to record sync STEREO sound on my miniDV camera at the same time.
Basically you start the miniDV camera running and then start the Nizo. The miniDV records both the audio and the LED in the middle of the black frame. The LED goes off when the Nizo stops. A more elaborate version would have slate information readable on the miniDV video along with the LED. It would be the responsibility of the sound person to start the miniDV and stop the miniDV appropriately.
I hope this helps.
Roger Evans
lol, I guess I missed two important elements. That's what happens when I skim the email notification then skim the actual post, I read it twice and got half the info!
If you're going to use an actual DV camera for sound, you could just point the camera at the shot, no?
I'm not sure about your need for stereo recording. If you want to use two tracks of audio to record each actor talking, that is technically a two track, mono situation.
Two tracks is still two tracks, but it may be wise to decide what it is you actually want, two mono tracks so you can record two actors on separate tracks, or true stereo, which may not be necessary if your main goal is to get the actors voices.
If isolation of the actors voices onto their own audio channel is your goal, than I would call that two track mono recording rather than stereo.
<font size="2" face="verdana, sans-serif">I have a single stereo mike that I wanted to use, so it would record the scene with stereo seperation. I could just record voices in mono and mix later to whatever, but with everyone wanting multi-channel sound these days, especially for DVD release...Originally posted by Alex:
I'm not sure about your need for stereo recording. If you want to use two tracks of audio to record each actor talking, that is technically a two track, mono situation.
Roger: excellent idea. I'm discovering that I don't have the technical expertise (yet) to fully devise my other plan, but your miniDV led idea is great. My only concern was syncing it up, because the video camera would run at 29.97 fps and the nizo at 24. Also, using audio beeps, I could technically sync to 1/48,000 (one audio sample on miniDV) vs 1/30 (frame rate) but really, at 24 fps for the video I don't think anyone would notice.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 21, 2003 01:01 PM: Message edited by: nahie ]</font>
If you're going to have a digital camera available on the set, then the issue of recording behind the scenes video footage AND dialogue tracks should be considered.
The down side to videotaping the scene with your video camera is the possible background noise the digital camera could generate.
But it seems that if the camera would not generate background noise that it would be quite easy to "sync" your film footage if your digital audio has a picture reference track.
So your choices are to use an LED on the lens cap as Roger says, which means you could keep the camera in a camera bag and keep it real quiet, or you could use the camera for picture reference and behind the scenes footage.
There's an audio interface unit you may want to purchase, I'll see if I can find a link, but beware, the audio pots may not be tapered very well.
<font size="2" face="verdana, sans-serif">Well basically this is a no budget shoot (just a for fun project) which means I'll be the only one holding the cameras. What I was going to do is put my miniDV camera in a case over my shoulder, and have wires running to the mic mounted on my nizo. So miniDV cam sound won't be a problem (the sound of the nizo, though quiet, is 100x louder than the DV cam anyway).Originally posted by Alex:
So your choices are to use an LED on the lens cap as Roger says, which means you could keep the camera in a camera bag and keep it real quiet, or you could use the camera for picture reference and behind the scenes footage.
Which Nizo are you using? Are you saying that the quiet Nizo's are 100 times louder than your mini-dv camera?
I've found complaints about the loudness of some mini-dv cameras and even posted the quotes in other topic posts on this forum.
the 3056 Nizo is a super-quiet camera, no?
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